He Became an Author at 63 — “It’s Never Too Late” | Ray Denyer

Hi and welcome to author conversations. As usual, I'm Chris Dabbs and today we've got something a little bit different to talk about. So let me ask you a question. What happens when the least likely night in the kingdom becomes its most celebrated hero? Well that sounds interesting to me. Well, Ray Denyer is the author of: Algernon Breadstick, The Hapless Knight, introduces us to a man who has dreamed of nighthood all his life, but fails his tournament. Oh, that's not a good start, is it? Gets lost on the way to his adventures, even worse, and often seems more interested in apples and ale.

Actually, that sounds like me, than glory. So I don't know where we're going to go from there, but you know what? Algenon is supposed weaknesses become his greatest strengths. So instead of simply slaying the creatures that he meets, which is kind of what you'd expect, right? He listens to them. He befriends them and basically goes down the pub with them and discovers that the monsters are often misunderstood. I'm not sure about the pub bit, but you know, anyway, so Ray wrote his first book later in life after years of making up stories for his family.

Today we'll talk about beginning at 63. The real inspiration behind Algenon and why kindness, persistence and comedy may make a better hero than brute force, which sounds like a plan to me. So Ray, Danielle, welcome to all the conversations. How are you? And I feel very welcomed. Good. That's all right. Excellent. Well, let's get to dump jump straight into it then. Yeah, Ray, you say that you'd always dreamed of becoming an author, right? But you know, life gets in the way of all the things that we want to do.

So I mean, you know, what finally made this the moment to begin. That's an easy question. 14 grandchildren. How many 14 14 grandchildren? 14 grandchildren. I've used to make up stories for my siblings in that time between going to bed and falling asleep. I used to make up stories to make them laugh and sometimes just to bore them to sleep. Then I started making up stories for my children. I've always been good at making up stories. And then we grandchildren and everybody been on that me. You've got to write it down.

You've got to write it down. So I started writing it down. And as they say, the rest is history. Well, I mean, you know, it's quite, it's not just the fact that you've just written something, right? It's actually, you know, interesting and it's fun at the same time, right? So, you know, that's the point. So, hmm, so what, they though, was there particular sort of like, I don't know, conversation or moment or family reaction other than everyone saying, come on, granddad, write these down. You know, that pushed you into telling stories or writing this particular one.

But I do always had the name, the character, for years. And then when I put it together with nights, it sounded better. Sir, Adjunam worked brilliantly. So I resurrected the name as it were and started to write. And it, it, it just flowed that was, there was no real thinking about it. I'd nick bits from other stories I'd made up. And just took it. And then it seemed to take on a life of its own. And now Adjunam's the character. And I've just finished writing the second one, the follow up. Right, well, that's OK then.

So we're going to look forward to hearing it going, so seeing and yet reading and hearing all that. Great, all right. So you mentioned obviously that you started writing later in life because of all this, you know, work stuff and whatever. I mean, 14 grandadjunam, that's going to affect me for the rest of the day, I think. But anyway, how do you think that's starting later, you know, with more experience under your belt, perhaps, or more time because you weren't working and things. Do you think that that gave you a sort of like confidence or maybe some different perspectives that you might not have had when you were young?

It gave me an overall picture of the world as I see it. And, well, without going into too much detail, I wanted to show people that you shouldn't give up on your dreams. With, with me, I left it very late, but it was never too late. And it's the same I've fed that into Aljanon. When he failed, he went to the pub and had an ale and thought, this is it. And the barman said to him, well, don't give up. You've always wanted to be a knight. Go on a quest. Aljanon's lesser good idea was a quest. And after non-benia quest myself, after going to the pub, maybe, but we won't go there.

And he says, why don't you go and kill the Loch Ness Monster? It's big enough to attract the attention of the king. And it will make you an instant hero. You'll be knighted straight away. And that's good because he didn't know where to find the Loch Ness Monster. He went to Wales to begin with, got lost. Then found himself in Scotland. And he's sitting on the bank and the Loch Ness Monster comes up and says, hello, Aljanon. And he said, how do you know my name? Is it Chris? I'm a mythical creature and I know everything.

Then he says, I also know you've come to slay me. And Aljanon said, well, yeah, that might have been a good idea last night. But you know, sitting here, it's not a good idea, is it? And the Loch Ness Monster says, I think we could mutually benefit each other here. I need to disappear from public life. And you need to be a knight. I lost the tooth yesterday. If I go and find it and give it to you, I can disappear. And you can tell the king you slayed me, but I was too heavy to bring back. So you brought the tooth as proof.

And as the story goes on, he goes back to the king, gives him the tooth. And he ignites him. But this is just the beginning of these problems because from there, he kills Aljanon. You can be my mythical creature slayer. I've got a dragon. And he goes to the dragon and he says, hello, Aljanon. And Aljanon said, oh, don't tell me you're a mythical creature and you know everything. And he said, no, actually, my cousin, the Loch Ness Monster told me he was coming. But that's not the beginning of these problems because the Vikings come.

And I don't want to spoil it. But it's not the beginning of the night. Yeah, sounds it actually. It sounds, I mean, yeah, the mythical creature knowing that he was coming. I love that little twist there. With the other one, you think mythical creature is just going to say, I don't know, but no, I like that one, but it's cousin. Excellent. So I, you know, I guess as you're writing, you're kind of improvising it, right? Obviously, it's coming out. But were there particular parts in other stories, as you said, that you've done that kind of, you know, that your grandchildren probably laughed at or something like that.

And you thought, right, I'm definitely making sure that Aljan does that sort of stuff. Yeah, names, characters, pictures of characters that if they laughed, I took that as a positive and I ended it in. But what I do is I write part of the story. Then I'll read it back. And if it reads right, I carry on. Sometimes I do overthink it and go back three or four times, but I usually end up with the original story anyway. So I've decided that maybe that's not such a good idea. Well, yeah, is that take it fresh, right?

So as it comes out, then, you know, you can always tidy it up later on, quite you through editing and whatnot. But yeah, the time you've tidy up the grandma. Yeah, exactly. That's the easy part. So, okay, let's go back to Aljan on the right. And he's next. I mean, must have it. I did laugh. Aljan on Breadstick. Okay, what is that about? Where does the Breadstick part come from? Well, if you can keep your secret and there's nobody listening. Well, I hope there is. But yeah, I have Aljan on and we sat down to an Italian meal with the grandchildren and they said, "Do you want a Breadstick?"

And then the wheel started turning and I said, "No, but Aljan might want a Breadstick. Maybe we should call him Sir Aljan on Breadstick." And they fell about. So that was good enough for me. He was then Aljan on Breadstick. And Sir Aljan on Mount after all his hard work. Yes, he deserves it. Yeah, and a bit of shenanigans, but I mean, I did lots of travelling, right? So then, fair enough. But okay, so that's quite funny. A bit because I think that you've got some sort of fancy first name, Aljan on.

And then you've got Breadstick coming up afterwards. So that kind of tells us, doesn't it? It gives us a story or immediately as soon as you read it. You know that this isn't so lancelot or you know, someone really sort of, you know, that's going to be like that. Was that a plan or was it? Yeah, I think we should all laugh at ourselves if we take ourselves too seriously. And because it doesn't work, or because it shouldn't work and it does work, that made it even funnier for them. They would talk about it for dames and every time they come up to see me, they go, "And how is Aljan on Breadstick?"

So they love that part. It sticks. Yeah, I have to have it approved by the grandchildren first. Is it that you, she was? Yeah, well, yeah. See the approval there. Yes, I think you have to, their my target audience anyway. Well, exactly. And you know, young adults and things, it's really important, I reckon. Okay, so let's find out a bit more about Aljan then. So he has trained for 12 years, right? But that hasn't happened, has it? Because he failed to score a single point in his tournament, or tournament, such as they.

But I mean, you know, why do you want to begin to such a story with such a spectacular failure, really? Because I think all success is grounded in failure. It's the way we learn, it's the way we grow, it's the way we develop. So I wanted to show that he was just your every day Mr Bridstick. And the fact that he doesn't give up and he keeps going and he can see in his mind that, you know, everything's going to be okay, don't worry about it. And sometimes it's not. But if you don't give up and keep tweaking, you're going to get there anyway.

I think that's really, that's, yeah, that's a big lesson to try and give over, isn't it, to yeah, to, I mean, a lot of people even, you know, in adulthood, they don't get it, you know, they just think that they, that they failed and that's that. But no, you'd learn from it. Yeah, right. I totally agree with that. And also they, um, people get out in the morning and they've got all the odds of stacked against them. And it just shows that it don't matter, you know, you could be threatened by a mythical creature, but you'll come through.

Just got to have the face it. Yeah. Or we're financially, you know, because yeah, well, then you wouldn't know much about it. So, you know, fair enough. And so I mean, all right. So if you think about that then that first setback, you know, that he's sort of like come through, you know, and you're asking people to sort of like support him through through the beginning and all of that sort of stuff. I mean, how much of that, if you like, do you kind of use that as a, in other words, don't give up?

How do you use that as a, a kind of, like, this is the messaging story. But, you know, what I'm going to explain why all the way through, if you see what I mean, so that you can build on that message. Is, was that a plan? Or was it, you know, don't do it just sort of. Yeah, it was. I have to say it was a plan. It makes me look intelligent. But no, it developed. Um, I don't know where it works, but Elginon became a person. He, my, my whole family, no impersonally. And I feel that, um, we all make mistakes.

We're not perfect. But perseverance and an ultimate goal, not a plan because it's going to have to be tweaked all the time, a basic outline and an ultimate goal. And we'll get there every single time. Like this is really nice. I like the city stories. Yeah, this is great. I mean, you know, if you're reading the book and you're in that, and you know, Elginon's world kind of thing, do you think that the people who, you know, other people in the book, do they realize, right, that he's really a bit of a, I don't know, or they think not realize, but they think that he's a bit of a buffoon or something like that.

I mean, you know, he's always getting it wrong. Yeah, that's a lot of stuff, right? Yeah, begin with. Right. And then they realize that maybe he's got something. We don't know what it is. I mean, the Kings see right through him after, after the Vikings, but we won't go there because it was all a story. But the King knew that whatever challenge he set him, he would deal with it in his own special way. And because he could communicate with mythical creatures, that was also a bonus for the King. And he could deal with all his mythical creature problems.

Now, that's a good point, right? So for readers and everything else, and unless you think it's a bit, it is too much of a spoiler. I mean, is he the only person that can talk to mythical creatures in that universe kind of thing? Well, the mythical creatures can allow people, and they're allowing him, because they see a friend, not an enemy or, you know, somebody wants to capture them, make them fun of them. He's on their level, which doesn't say a lot for Elginon, but he's on their level. And they believe they believe.

So, you know, he develops friendship with mythical creatures, and because they know everything, they tell each other, sort of what is in different countries or different areas, the mythical creatures in that area. And now he's coming, and they know that they can trust him. That's kind of nice actually. Or he, and, or he, they're a bit hungry, yes, true. So, okay, so for your point of view, you see Elginon as like a real person, right, as your family does. Yes. So, what do you think of him now there?

I mean, because if he's a real person, you're not like making him into the best person possible, because we all have our own faults, right? So, do you see him as as brave? Well, yeah, what's that? Otherwise, I think it's an SOS call. Basically, I filled it. None of us are perfect. I've made some real big mistakes, and I've come from, and I can relate to him. So, yeah, we've become buddies, and as a result, I've sent him all over the world, in the second book, is on his crusade. Crusade? That's amazing.

Is that a conventional crusade? Do you know, like the one that we know it, or the ones we know about the from history, or is it some sort of... No, it just escorts some pilgrims to the holy lamb, it becomes a pilgrimage through the people he meets, and the people he helps. Well, that'd be interesting. I will talk about that next time, Ben. Yes. Okay, now, that's five there. Now, the book tells readers, right, that dreams, obviously, both they can come true. If we're all brave enough, I'm not really to give up, I think, that's the main truth.

Yeah, and learn from that. I mean, you mentioned that you've made mistakes, and obviously, if you've got 14 grandchildren, you've got children that you've also seen, you know, do that sort of thing. So, I mean, what would you say to anybody then, who thinks that they've left it too late to become an author, or to become whatever, or to do whatever? Nobody could have left it later than me. I am now 69, and I'm talking to you. It's my son, never too late. I feel that, well, we've still got breath, we've still got a chance.

And basically, own up, you know, say that I made a mistake, I'm going to put it right. And then when people see that you start putting your mistakes right, and I'm drawing on myself here, once people see that you're willing to put your mistakes right, and you're willing to grow from them, anything's possible. And hopefully you get a second chance. But you've got to try in the first place, I guess. Oh, yes. Yeah, never give up. Never stop believing. Oh, it's a song, don't I? Just keep adapting to the, to the, to the, you know, you can't change yesterday, but tomorrow, it's not even written yet.

We just take it as it comes, keep your goal in mind, and have small wins. Elton, a great one for small wins, and then at the end of the week, you can add more up and have a good win. Yeah, it's a really good point, isn't it? Exactly. It's not all nothing all the time. Is it, is it just about making sure that that happens? Yeah, I get it. Yeah, with life in general, it's just a slow steady progression. And that's from Canon's point. And we, better than we were yesterday, as the main thing. And throughout the book, his confidence grows.

So then he'll be making better decisions and have been more courage. So his wins will in fact get bigger. And that's the same with us all, you know, it's all good. No, exactly. I have to ask you as well, actually, thinking about Alton and the way that he, the he is, I mean, apples, ale, right, taking the wrong turns, going to wrong place. And he tends to sleep under tables quite often, as well, actually. So, you know, how deliberately did you sort of build those trips to the pub or in or whatever it is, you know, into that to try and make it sort of the comedy?

And was that really based on your own experiences, right? Yeah, I believe in repetitive joke. When I research nights, it seemed that they had a dire of ale and apples. And it just grew from now. From the moment he failed, he went to the pub. He spoke to the landlord and that's where it progressed from. And I think even today we go to the we go to the pub, we talk to the landlord and sometimes he gives us silly ideas and sometimes he gives us a quest. So yeah, I think people can relate to Alton on because yes, he knows he's a failure, but he's working on it and is what they call a work in progress.

Yeah, exactly, which is what we should all really think about now. Yeah, no, it's all right. Okay, well, I can't believe it. We're running out of time. You know, it just always the way, but I love listening to you. I can see why your family loves listening to your stories of work. No, you know, I mean, I think this is the thing. You've got Alton on. You know, he befriends the monsters instead of slaying them. You know, so the Loch Ness Monster saves his life, basically. And the man who gained to stay with him in stay, you know, it becomes his friend.

So this is like my penultimate question then. Why was kindness more interesting to you than combat because you could have written one way, you just go down and like slaves, every medical creature around, couldn't you? Yeah, but then isn't isn't that where the world's going wrong now? Maybe if we all sat down and spoke honestly, we'd all be a little bit more like Algernon Breadstick. Um, conflict does never, there's no winners with conflict. There's always, there has to be a loser, but if you can become friends, you've got two winners.

You can, you know, can on each other, which will make you stronger and make all those goals come a little bit closer. You're very wise, right? Now, yeah, that's a good point there. I'm sick. Stee Nothin. I should be. Well, I think I know a few, but anyway, um, so as you're a 16, no idea what has becoming like a published author in your 16 made possible unbelievable, especially things like today, because then I put them, I put my social media and everybody says, oh, you must be doing something right.

And I think it's just pride because I've got 14 grandchildren. I'm 69. And I want to leave a legacy. And I don't think there's a better legacy than Algernon Breadstick Is that true? When late Ronin life when the children need it, they could go, hang on, what would Alton on do? And if they can relate to that, it's like I'm still giving them advice. Putting them on a straight and narrow. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll read, Daniel, thank you so much for all of that. No, thank you. The pleasure was all mine.

Thank you, Ray. I mean, seriously, I really enjoyed my program tube. And, you know, I am going to be thinking about it on breadstick and all of these things. And taking those positive life lessons more, more actually, because yeah, we always have a little bit of a problem, but learn from it. And next time that problem, hopefully, will, you know, not not not reacquire because you've changed something or you've doing something differently, right? Yeah, I think the basic point of the story is that when we're facing something for the first time, it can be daunting.

But if you're facing it, you think, hang on, I had something similar to this before, that way, didn't work. Maybe I should try a new way. And we develop because once we've made the same mistake twice, we're not going to make it third. Or we might not get the opportunity to make a third. No, hopefully not. Oh, hopefully you won't need to. Yeah, exactly. Well, listen, Ray Daniel, thank you very much for joining me. So the pleasure was almost. Thank you. And brilliant. Well, I tell you what, have you got a website or you've got something that people can contact you on?

Yeah, Raydenya.com Easy peasy, right? There we go. And then we'll have a social media. So my grandchildren tell me. And so you can't have a go at anyone else about spending too long with your phone. Okay, well, you heard it here first, people, www.raydenyerauthor.com and also Algernon will be back in the future. Hopefully, right? Yes, indeed. It will be good. And it's been lovely to meet you. Thanks very much. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author conversations here.

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