She Turned Heartbreak, Addiction & Recovery Into Powerful Poetry with Pamela Wallace

[Music] Hi there and welcome to Author Conversations. As usual, I'm Chris Dabbs and today I'm joined by poet Pamela Wallace. Now Pamela describes herself as a midwestern girl for Missouri, right? Whose life has taken her from the red dirt of Arizona to the white sands of Florida's Gulf Coast. Lovely. Along the way she's experienced love, heartbreak, motherhood, addiction, recovery, reinvention. And you know what? Everything else in between. Rather than writing a conventional memoir though, Pamela chose poetry as a vehicle to tell her story.

Her collection, "You Go Girl Poetry" is funny, brutally honest, deeply relatable, and celebrates the resilience that comes from simply refusing to give up. Pamela, after that introduction, welcome to author conversations. Thank you. That's very, very kind of you to refer to me that way. [Laughter] Well, hopefully you recognize yourself, right? But before we talk about the book itself, tell us about the woman behind the poems. Who is Pamela Wallace today? Okay. Well, I live alone and I have one daughter and basically I have followed some really wonderful women, women poets, and they've inspired me over my life and that's why I even wrote the book to begin with.

But I can tell you a little bit about how I came to write this book. Chapter one is husbands with an S. Chapter two, I'm a single girl. Chapter three, you go girl. Chapter four, my daughters ugly me and mother nature and God and Buddha two. That's chapter four. Chapter five is my daughters ugly badass habit. Chapter six is my ugly badass habit. Chapter seven is a fresh start. Chapter eight is wrinkles. Chapter nine is another fresh start and chapter ten is yet another fresh start. So that's pretty much it kind of sums up a little bit for you there.

When I was younger, I was in high school and the fifth, I'll tell you how it all started too anyway. I was in like a high school class and the teacher told us to read a write a poem about Easter. And so I wrote a poem about Easter and I gave it to her and she stepped on my desk and embarrassed me terribly by kind of accusing me that I must have copied that from somewhere and it really hurt me. And that's the first poem I ever wrote and I thought what? It was called what Easter means to be at 15 and I actually have it in my book and in one of my chapters.

But I was really hurt by that but then I finally realized I could turn it into a compliment and because that you know she thought somebody else wrote that poem so that might have been good thing. And so then when I was 17, I wrote another poem in my English class about well I can read that one too if you want. Yeah that'd be great. Yeah. When I was 17, I wrote my second poem and it was like I was writing it because I thought my English teacher might send me to a counselor and help me. But I wrote I think I'll skip the college life.

I think I'd rather be a wife. Diamond ring, white dress and lace will have a car in our own place. I know I have to clean and cook before there's time to read a book but still I can't wait for the time wedding instead of school bells chime. And I really didn't that was I would have a high school boyfriend you know and I really didn't want to get married. I wanted to go to college but I kind of had to talk myself into this situation because I wanted to be free from my strict dad and you know have a car.

So that was kind of my second entry into poetry and I thought my teacher might send me to a counselor and say talk her into going to college but nothing happens. So I married my first husband and then I was married four times and so my first poem in my book is called Husbands. It's called Getting to Know Me. Husband number one I knew him but I didn't know me. Husband number two I didn't know him and I still didn't know me. Husband number three I thought I knew him. I thought I knew me. Husband number four we know ourselves and we knew each other and then we both changed.

So that was my that was my first maybe you know 30, 40 years in a nutshell. Wow but that's okay I mean you know well I mean yeah I think if you want to go through the chapters I mean you know and explain how each one kind of you know got each where you are that's great. Yeah please do. And also when you feel like adding in some poetry yeah we'd love to hear it too. Yeah. Because that kind of tells it all you know my next chapter after Husbands of course was called I'm a single girl. I was finally single and it was like 50 or something.

I could do everything I could I could think of the doing I'm single I'm single and so I started dating and that was fun. So I simply loved my lifestyle now I hope it hangs around a while but if it has to journey on I hope it will return and so then it went on a date my a real date you know it's a single girl we went to the symphony and I do not like the symphony it's like you know it was not my thing you have to clap a million times for the director keeps coming out and clapping and clapping clapping but anyway we had a potty break you know they had the break to go to the bathroom and when I was a bathroom and I wrote this I thought of this poem and I went back to my seat so I'll read you the poem it's called bathroom break at the symphony she sit flush touch of blush wash hands check out tan teeth floss lips gloss context rinse hot breast men's brush hair back to chair he whip it out let it spout tucking neat back to seat and that's kind of our first day so that was kind of one of the crazy things but as a single girl I got to I got to get in living I always wanted to live in an apartment so I got to live in an apartment and I was so exciting so the man upstairs he smokes the guards and I didn't like the guards and I played rock music and he didn't like rock music but somehow we became friends and we became friends for life you know he's he was always my friend all the way

through even though I went through many many other things and so forth but he asked me what my apartment was like I said he could come and see he smiled you should be more careful for him finding down men like me I said but your professor professor and I think your smile is nice he smiled you can't trust professors you better take my advice I said come down and talk to me let's see what kind of friends will be and he did and we are and that was our friendship for many many many many years until he passed on so I wrote a poem and this I'm not going to go on and on to it but this is the poem I wrote about everyone I fell in love with them I'll kiss you you'll kiss me goodbye every morning and I'll hug you alone every night and if we ever quarrel we'll quick make it right and we'll walk on white beaches beneath the pink sky and I'll never get old and you'll never die but then later in my life you know well yes you got older and yes I got older and yes you did die but you're still on my stand and there in my pink sky and that was my my real love in my life I guess and that didn't you know didn't last forever but that was a good one I always wanted to travel to the beaches and to the you know travel around and never had gotten to travel anywhere so I wrote this

poem well my budget bear should save that dime and my st. Louis guy won't wait this time the highway spas my beetles slow oh I don't care I'm gonna go south so I sold my coats in my winter suits my red love seat and all my boots just me my clubs flip flaps in car I planted my soul on the Gulf of Navarre and I moved to Florida the clear blue sky and I felt for a fisherman there and and so I wrote and he he went away so it's a beware Florida fisherman they tend to sail away I wrote I looked down and find I'm tangled mangled in your line up you look and ever so gently unscrew your hook from my heartstrings but still it stings a couple of tears on my beach tile who am I gonna dance with now who's gonna call me sugar I can read you one more about it yeah please yeah yeah yeah so this is a kind of a long one but I'll read it fast Jimmy Green Jimmy Green smiled at Pamela Jean on a beach where the Gulf was Emerald Green and the Sanford's widest her st. Louis snow he nodded she nodded they both said hello each day or to that he sat by where she sat an hour each day then he'd go on his way but finally her stay ended and the guy she befriended stopped by for run one last chat with son the kiss their first kiss if she hugged him goodbye then she drove away from that wonderful guy

they emailed a email to bed and he called once or twice she liked things he said she got he was nice then they sort of lost track and so that was that months later passed and then back to Dustin again she emailed a note heading south all she wrote he said when your year will go out for a beer that's how Pamela Jean came to know Jimmy Green if it had gone farther if he'd asked for her hand she may have accepted his gold wedding band such a perfect fit for a poetry scene a rhyming last name Pamela Jean Green so and then the proposal was he offered me an engagement ring I said I'd rather have a car today I'm ringless and carless so far no one of the strongest messages I think in your collection of poetry and the ones that we've been hearing so far that you're just throwing in there because you're so prolific listen to this I mean one of the strongest messages I think is that it's never too late I think that's the point isn't it to begin again right and I think a lot of us are so scared of change like that you know my gosh what am I going to do I can't date again I can't do this I can't I can't move to a different city I can't move to a different state I can't move to a different neighborhood I can't move to a different building a floor whatever it is

right I mean what would you say to someone who's really convinced that their best years are behind them and they're done well I would say number one the 50s are the best when I was 50 I mean I started being I started living when I was 50 really because I was married all those times I had a my last husband I had a corporation we ran it for 20 years and it was pure work for 20 years so you know it wasn't when I left him that's when I was a single girl so no 50s are great and 60s are great I'm seven and my 70s now and they're great and I'm not quite in my 80s but so far it's been fun you know you just you just have to get out there and enjoy it so I don't know I really I had we had some bad times of course very bad times with my with my daughter she she had some stuff and then one time I I met a man when I was single this is the kind of a thing that people have to be careful of because he I go I go to breakfast all the time by myself and he was always very breakfast and he met me in the parking lot one time after like a year going to breakfast all the time and ask me if I'd like to take a ride in this brand new car about a real hot car and I I said okay that'll be fun I got in his car and he he started attacking me he started you know come attacking me and not attacking me

but wanting me to do things and I I jumped out of his car and I left him but I wrote a little I wrote a long poem it's called the lowercase guy and it was a he it was terrible but at the end I wrote this little sit stands up dad's words reigned my dad was very strict so dad's words reigned in my years he preached to me in my teen years stand up straight turn down that noise and do not get in cars with boys and that was kind of like really reminded me of what I just been through you know it's kind of a little upbeat thing really it's supposed to be upbeat it's not really I got away from that guy good right gosh and after a year as well being you know going for breakfast in the same place I mean man yeah I we never talked to anything I just always you know it's always eating breakfast and he was and but anyway it was just a it was one of those things again those are things you run into you know in your life when you're single especially so but it didn't really I turned it into kind of a little sweet thing about my dad saying do not get in cars with boys and that committed now that's really good no that that's great it's a great way to do it right I mean I suppose you know reading these back

though it all these memories must come flooding back because you know they're all based on the life and all these things aren't they so how do you deal with that then I mean it's I hope that it's good to deal to to be you know what happens is I I've been running poetry well I've been running poetry since I was 15 and I I learned from Anne Lamont I read her book bird by bird and I learned that you can just just go ahead and tell stuff about your life you know go ahead and express and that she did that animal not just tells it all she's wonderful and she was one of my my idols and I started thinking when I was even a young girl I could just tell whatever I went my poetry you know I'm not going to worry about it it helps it actually helps and then read Judas Beorce she is another poet and she has written her whole life she wrote me like at 40 at 50 at 60 she's a great famous poet Judas Beorce and she's written all the way through to you know 70s and now she's 90 and she's written she's written another book and it's called making the best of what's left fair enough isn't that great and that's kind of how I feel you know just make make the best of what's left and keep going you know and that's kind of I really admired her and then my mom was why the

real you know mentor for me and you go girl that's why I got this the thing you go girl she's always telling me that she was she was a poet too and all my poems are in rhyme basically it just helps when I rhyme it just helps me to explain myself and I think it came when I was a little bitty girl my mom read me these book the golden books I don't you know anybody hearing this would even know what they are the little story books that rhyme and like this is my house and I am the mommy my daughters are Annabelle Betsy and Bonnie they good little girls do just what I say I put in their coats they go out to play daddy is Billy he works in the city he's got a new car isn't it pretty those are the kinds of poems that were in this these little golden books anybody who knows golden books would know and so my mom read me those the whole time you know I was little and she and I both when we got adults we started writing and rhyme all the time and I think that could have been from you know that history I don't know but I'm grateful whatever it was and the poem the run I like to keep things upbeat no matter what happens that's the way I am in my life so I try to always and well my life has this fine right now you know and I'm 79 you know and it's fine it's fun and I'm happy

and I've been through hell and back quite a few times there's a restaurant there's a bar in Florida called hell and back now don't tell me you're regular there's every day we know about that right well but I have to say hang on a second 79 wow I mean you are just full of life right you know and I think you really are someone that other people can admire and certainly follow in in your footsteps I mean it's great I mean but you know it hasn't all been good as you say right I mean the book it touches on addiction and recovery and things like that I mean what role did that you know help you in writing really I mean and in your own healing as well yeah it I've had a lot of ups and downs but the best one I had my big company and my had my daughter who's a beautiful person I loved her dearly she was my office manager she was a great office manager when I was working and she came into my office and closed the door and said mom I'm leaving I'm going to the hospital I'm addicted to heroin and I'm I didn't even know what heroin was I remember those stories of Sonatti knows men jumping out of windows because they were heroin addicts from early you know I didn't know what to think and but anyway she she went to the hospital and she came back but she was a

heroin addict for quite a while you know it's not not like you can just go to the hospital and stop you know it was pretty it was pretty tough very tough and that's called my daughter's ugly badass habit and I think what happened was I wrote about that I wrote poetry I rhymed her whole our whole horrible experience and I think writing and well I write poetry but I think writing really you know does help you a little bit but I could read it a couple of things that it was really it was really a tough time and it was really horrible actually but she went to many many rehabs you know rehab number one two three four five six seven blah blah and I finally I was asking doctors for help I was doing everything I could and she was she went she didn't want to be that way but she'd go off and be that way so finally I wrote a couple poems that helped me a lot and I was mad at God for not helping not answering my prayers and helping me and so I wrote a letter I wrote a kind of an angry letter to God and rhyme of all things but I didn't see if I can find it it was really but anyway it helped me through her addiction it really did and I didn't see if I can find it I think here's the one I think maybe you see a Lord you know so I don't worry don't I mean at the end

of the day I think that that's if you can find it it's great I mean you know I think wow that must be a terrible thing to happen I've been fortunate that you know none of my kids have done that but yeah coping with it dealing with it and then having poetry to help you through it and perhaps your daughter too would have been really good how did you get on did you find it yeah I found it I was mad at God because you know I keep praying to God you know take care of it very back and you know so I wrote you know please please you know let me see well see oh Lord please help my daughter um I know there's you to turn to Lord I wish she would that's what I pray she doesn't seem to get you though she tried but hasn't found your way the drugs are God who kills her pain and blocks her guilt from shame and sin please track her down Lord show yourself open your arms and pull her in and then I was so mad at God I was like I know you come to those who ask I know the rule that you stick to forget back to you can get off of that subject my daughter she finally recovered we had a once she allowed me to write her story so that other families and parents we have children who go into drugs and have problems will maybe get motivated from it a little bit because it ended up good she got

off that she's happy with her dogs and she's a wonderful daughter she's my best friend but she was able to God I guess God helped her because I don't know what else did but somehow she got off of it so we're happy but it kind of can tell you how horrible it can be especially if a parent reads that they will relate to it anyway that's over with and I had a ugly bad ass habit too I started my cousin took us the gambling boats came to St. Louis and you know that you know I my cousin took us all and showed us how to put coins in the slot and this and this so much fun it was on Mother's Day I said we'll come back again maybe next Mother's Day try that again but we came back a lot more often the boat at that time there was that actual boat that went down the Mississippi river and you could go all the loser people would go in the upper deck and and just enjoy the boat ride and then the people on the bottom decks would be gambling away you know spending their money and so I spent a lot of time on the loser deck when you run out of money you go to the loser deck I do you enjoy the view right instead of yeah I actually came moments about a really wonderful for motions for one of my companies that I had just sitting there thinking so it was a plus that way you know yeah so silver

lining silver lining yeah yeah yeah every well wow yeah I think the Mississippi has this I think it's quite well known for those floating casino kind of yes well what happened that was way long ago when they first when gambling first started you know that kind of gambling in our town but since then they've built tons of hardcore casinos where there's no view no loser deck you go in and you spend as much money as you can you go out broke you know it's pretty much the norm but I will tell you an interesting little story about gambling I spent too much money in gambling and I wanted to stop and it was really hard it's really hard to stop because it's fun you know when you win but I wrote a poem about my ugly badass habit that was my chapter and you know it really you know I had to go to cognitive therapist to try to stop you know because it was too much fun and it blanks you from being lonely it blanks you from being upset about your kid anything you just when you're gambling it's not really a very healthy thing but I went to a cognitive therapist and this is an interesting piece of information I think it's because I tried everything and she she this little girl was a assistant said I have a question what does it feel like when you walk into a

casino when you're walking down the parking lot into the casino and I said oh it's so exciting the bells are gonna ring and people and lights and I think I'll win some money and you know it's really fun and she's a who it takes about three minutes you know to get into the casino and so that's three minutes of excitement then she said what does it feel like when you're walking out you know if you lose it's like oh my god you know it takes about three weeks of feeling horrible that you spent money that you didn't have or something so I realized you know three minutes of excitement versus three weeks of horrible news for losing everybody loses their money and not many people really are always winners and so it really helped me though that one little assistant girl asking that one little question after I tried everything else and that was really I think really I tell people that a lot you know people that gamble because it's really true it's exciting when you go in but horrible when you come out it's a good point isn't it yeah and you do win too but you know basically it's horrible when you come out because most people spend too much and don't want to leave because it's kind of fun they've

high notes a couple things I think my books appeal I thought my books would appeal appeal to mostly women but they seem like they've peeled a lot of men my I sent it to all my friends and you know my my information and they bought my books and it's like the men are just relate to it as much as the women but I would think that you know I don't know why but I sent it to all my perfect friends and my imperfect friends I thought the perfect friends are going to think I'm a bad girl of it they all liked it too so you know when you get older and you go through stuff everybody does but I wrote one called wrinkles this is about getting older so wrinkles peel tuck liposuckum you know and then I wrote one about menopause because women go to menopause I don't if you realize that or not but you know or have experienced what women do but it makes you real real hot and so I was in a really cold restaurant and I was passing menopause but it's it's already passed but I said come on hot flash give me some this restaurant's cold and I'm so dumb I forgot to bring a wrap come on oh pal flash me is that I've got goosebumps on my arm come on hot flash make me warm even better make me hot give me everything you've got where are you hot flash what's the deal help

me through this freezing meal why have you left me now I see you found a younger girl than me because I was too old I'm gonna tell my wife I want to think in a minute yeah exactly women relate to you that's quite funny actually oh get that that's awful as well isn't it so when you want the menopause to do something for you oh no not bad that was I was pleased but you know when you're so and it didn't work but then I did have it I ended up as my in my older chapter I did have a have to get a double mass sector me and that was a weird thing but it didn't really affect me very much it was about eight weeks of you know tubes in me but the last after after four weeks are actually four weeks I wrote this poem and this is what I did I'm on a plane to Florida for fun and to sum with my best friend Becky I looked like a flat-chested female athlete I feel so strong and fit I'm almost tempted to exercise so I it really didn't affect me that bad it was really amazing you know that was another part of my life but then my friend wanted me to read this one she loved she liked one that I've been single still all those times so you know it's like I went on the dating thing for one time and I met I had a meetup you know with one of those dating sites you know and I wrote as soon

as he entered I could feel he was nice and he is he's smart attractive wealthy and yet humble he's a nice hugger no children no he's married I understand that's always the problem I didn't tell me that so that was kind of a you know one that I thought was kind of and then my my one that my girlfriend wants me to read she liked this one my best who's called uncorked the cork on my bottle of dreams is just popped some bubble tip walls and just stopped others land on my skin I let them soak in but some land on the tip of my time those I swallow real fast like a sweet honeydew and hope they come true like woman that's a woman thing you know yeah yeah pretty well listen Pamela we're quickly running out of time which is really shame because I think we're having all we're having a great time there listeners and viewers I think I'm sure you'd agree make sure that you leave a a comment down below and a request so when I'm gonna seize it then no no not you you readers and your listeners and viewers and I mean you won last phone my very last phone I was gonna say yeah please leave us with something okay it's called well first of all I wrote my obituary it was like I tried to read diet gave up sugar and bread which had donuts now

that I'm dead but that was one of my little obituary but this is the one I wrote for one I died eternal life once I was a seedling then it became a sprout sometimes I was trampled sometimes I suffered drought one day in April one day in April raindrop blossom made a pretty pink and birds and bees came by my door to share a nectar drink a last-old mother nature pulled me back to underground guess what I sprouted up again can't keep my spirit down there you go I do you know what I believe yeah exactly I believe that too that we probably know about can't keep your spirit down Pamela Wallace thank you so much for joining me on author conversation I'm reading you thank you it's been fantastic isn't it I love it well your you-go-go poetry is an honest funny and moving collection that reminds us of life that's really fun girl there you go and you know what well you I think it's okay to have humor vulnerability and resilience like you've shown that even lives harder chapters can become something beautiful it's been a real pleasure hearing the poems and the stories behind them as well and basically listeners viewers if you want to connect with Pamela or pick up a copy of you go girl poetry you'll find all the links in the description

down below if you've enjoyed today's conversation and you want that book please like subscribe and share this episode with someone who loves powerful storytelling so until next time I've been Chris Dabbs thanks for watching all the author conversations and thank you Pamela Wallace for joining us thank you bye bye if you enjoyed this conversation you can watch more author conversations here [Music]